Entry tags:
Divination Interference
I am a bit concerned by the fact that all of the divinations that I’ve seen regarding the Covid-19 vaccine have been uniformly positive, including two that recently appeared in the ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
conjunctio Geomancy discussion group. Now of course it could simply mean that all these hastily produced miracle vaccines are effective and wonderful, at least as far as their effects on the people divining about them who I've happened to hear about. Then again, when I see a comment like this one from JMG's Magic Monday, I get a little bit worried.
Whether or not there are unsavory spiritual entities at work interested in mucking with divination on this subject, apparently there is a certain class of human interested in doing so. I don't know how one would end up the kind of person so invested in one view of a situation that they would go so far as to attempt to turn other people's divinations into propaganda. "It's important to make sure the universe stays on message! It can't be trusted to give good advice to people on its own!" This kind of thinking flabbergasts me. But crazy times produce crazy people.
I suspect these issues may extend beyond the vaccine issue. I have not actually done any divinations about any Covid vaccines, as I have not been in a position to take any yet. But I note that except for possibly my very first Coronavirus divination back when it first started hitting the news, my divinations have been extremely screwy on the subject of the virus in general. (In that initial reading, I asked whether it would become a "major pandemic", which in my naivety I defined specifically as one which would go on to kill "over 10,000 people”. It was an occupation by Fortuna Major in the 8th, as I recall.)
Twice so far I have seemed in particular danger to exposure to Covid, and at those times I did geomancy readings that told me in quite strong terms that I had already contracted a highly symptomatic and contagious version of it. In neither case did this turn out to be at all true. I also inquired once as to whether my daughter, who I needed to take on a short day trip to another city, would be safe from virus infection, as my wife was worried; the result was, similarly, that my daughter would be catch the virus and become ill. I eventually decided to disregard that reading for various reasons, not the least of which was that the previous two had been so off the mark; and indeed, nothing at all came of it.
After seeing the Magic Monday comment I linked above, a pin dropped. Might there be some parties interested in tipping the scales on these questions? Either, on the one hand, toward increasing panic; or on the other, desiring to encourage what they consider "safe" behavior in order to keep the disease from spreading?
So I decided to ask, “Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?” (Of course, there is no guarantee that this reading wouldn't be tampered with as well. I just thought it might fare better, since potential hostile magic is likely to be more focused on disrupting answers to queries about Covid, than on disrupting queries about queries.)
Immediately before the reading, I did a banishing ritual and said a prayer for clarity and for protection from meddling influence, and made an effort to become calm and focus a bit more than I usually do. Given the results that followed, I wonder if I shouldn’t make that routine my own “new normal” when it comes to divination.
I treated it as a 12th house question (hostile magic, dangers the Quesited isn't aware of). The Four Mothers were: Albus, Rubeus, Tristitia, Tristitia. Warning to non-geomancers: jargon ahead; the short answer to the question is definitely "yes".
Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?
The court tells the story clearly: a transmission (Conjunctio) changed (Via) resulting in a state of no options (Carcer). The Querent is Albus, I suppose indicating me being an innocent party and perhaps that I was yet unsullied by infection or the like. The Quesited, the "outside forces" in the 12th house, is Puella, which I take to represent a glamour that fools the Querent. Indeed, there is perfection in the form of a Translation by Rubeus. Rubeus, here representing danger, dishonesty and lies, not only passes from between Querent-adjacent 2nd house of profit and Quesited-adjacent 11th house of help/friends, but also 6th house of health. All of these make sense, as these lies about my true state of health have also contributed to lockdown decisions which kept me away from both friends and profit (though not from other things such as family or work).
Reflecting on the chart, it seems to me that if this is the result of hostile magic, then the person/people casting the spell would likely be represented by House 7 (house of enemies/the other party). Support for this is further given by the facts that the Way of Points (showing root cause) leads by way of the 12th to the 7th house; and that, if rotating the chart from the 7th's perspective, the Rubeus force passes through enemy's 5th (fun or creation, and it should be noted that![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
magister_geomantiae's tradition places magical workings here), enemy's 8th (house of spirits, and the traditional placement for magical workings that ecosophia JMG lists in The Art and Practice of Geomancy), and enemy's 12th (which suggests to me the magical blowback the magic user has lying in store-- for one thing, to also become victim to lies).
By the way, I should clarify that it seems even possible to me that the "magical working" indicated by this reading may not have literally been an act of ritual magic-- for instance it could be simply the result of the amassed desires of the egregore of everyone who thinks that others should be more scared and cautious in their behavior during the pandemic. That said, given that Magic Monday comment and the tenor of the times, it seems likely that at least some parties involved really have been working magic, though I have no idea how many there are, their skill level, or whether there are multiple parties doing so with conflicting agendas. Best to assume the worst in all cases, I guess.
Atconjunctio we have discussed how in Geomancy, hot button issues seem particularly prone to wonky divination results. This made particular sense when it comes to various people's third party questions like whether the Three Gorges Dam is about to burst or whether JFK Jr is still alive, where our Querents had no actual connection to the Quesited. In fact, I have heard the view recently that in such cases, perfection between Querent and Quesited doesn't actually have any bearing on the answer (though other factors may be weighed and considered)-- a position that makes logical sense to me. But, from my reading today, I have learned that even in questions directly involving the Querent, when it comes to hot button issues, wonky and inaccurate results are still a major danger.
I would like to put out a request. Would anyone who has previously divined as to the effectiveness of the vaccine for themselves be willing to ask a similar question to what I asked above, and share the results here? For example: “Were my divinations regarding the vaccine tampered with by outside forces?” If you do so, I recommend that you, too, take more efforts than you usually would to cleanse, banish, pray, and/or enter a meditative state before your reading.
conjunctio Geomancy discussion group. Now of course it could simply mean that all these hastily produced miracle vaccines are effective and wonderful, at least as far as their effects on the people divining about them who I've happened to hear about. Then again, when I see a comment like this one from JMG's Magic Monday, I get a little bit worried.Whether or not there are unsavory spiritual entities at work interested in mucking with divination on this subject, apparently there is a certain class of human interested in doing so. I don't know how one would end up the kind of person so invested in one view of a situation that they would go so far as to attempt to turn other people's divinations into propaganda. "It's important to make sure the universe stays on message! It can't be trusted to give good advice to people on its own!" This kind of thinking flabbergasts me. But crazy times produce crazy people.
I suspect these issues may extend beyond the vaccine issue. I have not actually done any divinations about any Covid vaccines, as I have not been in a position to take any yet. But I note that except for possibly my very first Coronavirus divination back when it first started hitting the news, my divinations have been extremely screwy on the subject of the virus in general. (In that initial reading, I asked whether it would become a "major pandemic", which in my naivety I defined specifically as one which would go on to kill "over 10,000 people”. It was an occupation by Fortuna Major in the 8th, as I recall.)
Twice so far I have seemed in particular danger to exposure to Covid, and at those times I did geomancy readings that told me in quite strong terms that I had already contracted a highly symptomatic and contagious version of it. In neither case did this turn out to be at all true. I also inquired once as to whether my daughter, who I needed to take on a short day trip to another city, would be safe from virus infection, as my wife was worried; the result was, similarly, that my daughter would be catch the virus and become ill. I eventually decided to disregard that reading for various reasons, not the least of which was that the previous two had been so off the mark; and indeed, nothing at all came of it.
After seeing the Magic Monday comment I linked above, a pin dropped. Might there be some parties interested in tipping the scales on these questions? Either, on the one hand, toward increasing panic; or on the other, desiring to encourage what they consider "safe" behavior in order to keep the disease from spreading?
So I decided to ask, “Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?” (Of course, there is no guarantee that this reading wouldn't be tampered with as well. I just thought it might fare better, since potential hostile magic is likely to be more focused on disrupting answers to queries about Covid, than on disrupting queries about queries.)
Immediately before the reading, I did a banishing ritual and said a prayer for clarity and for protection from meddling influence, and made an effort to become calm and focus a bit more than I usually do. Given the results that followed, I wonder if I shouldn’t make that routine my own “new normal” when it comes to divination.
I treated it as a 12th house question (hostile magic, dangers the Quesited isn't aware of). The Four Mothers were: Albus, Rubeus, Tristitia, Tristitia. Warning to non-geomancers: jargon ahead; the short answer to the question is definitely "yes".
Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?
The court tells the story clearly: a transmission (Conjunctio) changed (Via) resulting in a state of no options (Carcer). The Querent is Albus, I suppose indicating me being an innocent party and perhaps that I was yet unsullied by infection or the like. The Quesited, the "outside forces" in the 12th house, is Puella, which I take to represent a glamour that fools the Querent. Indeed, there is perfection in the form of a Translation by Rubeus. Rubeus, here representing danger, dishonesty and lies, not only passes from between Querent-adjacent 2nd house of profit and Quesited-adjacent 11th house of help/friends, but also 6th house of health. All of these make sense, as these lies about my true state of health have also contributed to lockdown decisions which kept me away from both friends and profit (though not from other things such as family or work).
Reflecting on the chart, it seems to me that if this is the result of hostile magic, then the person/people casting the spell would likely be represented by House 7 (house of enemies/the other party). Support for this is further given by the facts that the Way of Points (showing root cause) leads by way of the 12th to the 7th house; and that, if rotating the chart from the 7th's perspective, the Rubeus force passes through enemy's 5th (fun or creation, and it should be noted that
magister_geomantiae's tradition places magical workings here), enemy's 8th (house of spirits, and the traditional placement for magical workings that ecosophia JMG lists in The Art and Practice of Geomancy), and enemy's 12th (which suggests to me the magical blowback the magic user has lying in store-- for one thing, to also become victim to lies).By the way, I should clarify that it seems even possible to me that the "magical working" indicated by this reading may not have literally been an act of ritual magic-- for instance it could be simply the result of the amassed desires of the egregore of everyone who thinks that others should be more scared and cautious in their behavior during the pandemic. That said, given that Magic Monday comment and the tenor of the times, it seems likely that at least some parties involved really have been working magic, though I have no idea how many there are, their skill level, or whether there are multiple parties doing so with conflicting agendas. Best to assume the worst in all cases, I guess.
At
conjunctio we have discussed how in Geomancy, hot button issues seem particularly prone to wonky divination results. This made particular sense when it comes to various people's third party questions like whether the Three Gorges Dam is about to burst or whether JFK Jr is still alive, where our Querents had no actual connection to the Quesited. In fact, I have heard the view recently that in such cases, perfection between Querent and Quesited doesn't actually have any bearing on the answer (though other factors may be weighed and considered)-- a position that makes logical sense to me. But, from my reading today, I have learned that even in questions directly involving the Querent, when it comes to hot button issues, wonky and inaccurate results are still a major danger.I would like to put out a request. Would anyone who has previously divined as to the effectiveness of the vaccine for themselves be willing to ask a similar question to what I asked above, and share the results here? For example: “Were my divinations regarding the vaccine tampered with by outside forces?” If you do so, I recommend that you, too, take more efforts than you usually would to cleanse, banish, pray, and/or enter a meditative state before your reading.
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MANUEL:
Quick question Magister, if I may: If the query is: Have any of my divinations been tampered with by outside forces?, Would we look for perfection between the Querent (House I) and House XII (hidden enemies) or between House IX (divinations) and House XII? (For context of the query, see tunesmyth page: https://tunesmyth.dreamwidth.org/) Many thanks!
MAGISTER:
Manuel, good morning,
I am having difficulty understanding the question. What kind of outside forces? And how would those forces be tampering with divination? The main force of our art comes from the planets, which are essentially the nerve centers of the Mother of All Living. The power of the planetary nerve centers are mirrored in the geomancer's own interior planetary centers, and our own interior planetary centers govern the course of our thoughts and the movements of our bodies, including our hands. So, if there were theoretically going to be interference, it could *NOT* be between the external planets and our internal planets. To postulate that would be to suggest that the Mirror of Nature (or the Chain of Fate) could be broken (the link between as above, so below; as below so above), and that is not possible (FN1). So, it must be that people are thinking that the interference is between the interior planets and the individual diviner's hands? And the idea is that there is an outside force that is interfering with individuals in a gross/collective sense, not by focusing on individual diviners? An outside force is casting a spell (or something) and saying, "let all divinations on COVID speak falsely"?
MAN:
Firstly, I must say this not my query, but tunesmith's. My understanding is that what he means by outside forces is maybe demonic entities or people using magical means to interfere/affect the divination, so the result they want appears in place of the true result of the divination. He might suspect something like that could be happening regarding divinations about the nature of the covid vaccine, because all the ones he has seen have been positive, and he might wonder whether someone is trying to magically override any negative queries in order to convince people to get vaccinated. At any rate, there're two questions raised by this:
1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?
2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or House IX (Divinations)?
MAG:
>> 1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?
Yes, it is possible to break the link between the the diviner's inner planets and his mind and hands. I'm pretty sure I could do it, myself. But, I would have to levy my work at a specific individual at the time he was doing the divination. If I wanted to break the link for a longer period of time, I would have to use some kind of curse on the person. Demonic entities would not have the power to collectively ruin the divinations on a certain topic, and evil magicians don't have that kind of power, either. Hence my questions attempting to clarify this. My impression is that, wherever this whole topic originated, the person does not understand how cosmological reality works.
If a specific individual thinks his divinatory power has been tampered with, then (a) someone must be monitoring him closely for the times that he attempts divination in order to destroy the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands at that specific time; or (b) someone has cursed him and destroyed the divinatory link for a longer period. If it is (b), the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands will be severed for all questions, not just questions on a specific topic.
> 2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or
> House IX (Divinations)
I would assign HOUSE 12 to the secret enemy, HOUSE 4 to the secret enemy's magical works, and HOUSE 9 to my own divinatory powers and divination. I might look at HOUSE 1 for secondary testimony, too. HOUSE 12 to 9 and HOUSE 4 to 9 and HOUSE 12 to 1 would seem to be a reasonable investigation and give a clear picture.
Let me add, too, that the interference is possible only if the divinatory method requires some connection between the inner planets and the diviner's body motion. That would include geomancy, tarot, runes, etc. It would *NOT* include horary astrology. The planets' influence on Earth NEVER stops. The Great Mirror of Nature will NEVER be broken until the Earth is destroyed. I might be able to curse someone's reasoning powers and judgment (to the extent they are actually present; they often are not present), and make a horary chart difficult for him to read, but another astrologer would read it easily.
[FN1] Breaking the Mirror of Nature or the Chain of Fate is, in fact, possible. But this is a very high alchemical work. A dark brotherhood of humans, for instance, could not do it. A single Master may effectuate it for good reason, though. An instance of this is Annie Besant. Her nativity was published at a time when astrologers still routinely calculated the date of death. And many knew when Annie Besant was fated to die. But the day came and went, and so did the month, and the year. There was so much buzz about it that Annie had to make a public statement that her Master had elongated her life so that she could finish a certain task. When that task was done, she would go.
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Onward to attempting to apply the Magister's guidelines for interpreting my chart.
12-1: Relationship between Me and Secret Enemy. There is certainly a connection here, being that I've got a translation by Rubeus sandwiching us in at 11 and 2.
Also of note, something I didn't mention previously, is that adding the translating figure to the Querent and Quesited (something which is common practice for Translations, according to Art and Practice) yields Albus+Rubeus=Conjunctio for the Querent, and Puella+Rubeus=Via for the Quesited. Which happens to give us our court figures: RW Conjunctio and LW Via! So the court may be showing: Querent + Quesited = Carcer. Somebody is getting trapped here.
Also we should notice, since we're applying Magister's guidelines here, that the Rubeus translating to and also in Company Compound with my 1st House Albus is weakened by being "In the Beams of the Sun". So perhaps the one being trapped here is the cursing mage, rather than I.
4-9: Relationship between Secret Enemy's Working and My Divinations. Here again there is a Translation, this time Populus between 5-10. Populus in 5 is flavored by it company capitular with Rubeus, perhaps reflecting the crazy zeitgeist; 10's is in company with Conjunctio, the symbol of communication. Perhaps my divinations are being affected by the popular currents in some way, or are falling into common grooves set by thousands of people doing similar divinations about Covid.
12-9: Relationship between the Secret Enemy and My Divinations. Here there is no particular relationship to be found.
So there are connections, in my chart at least, showing a passion-driven figure of some kind connecting a Secret Enemy and myself, though weakened when it reaches me; and between a Secret Enemy's Magic and My Divinations, by way of some kind of mass movement.
How to divine past that, using the Magister's methods, I'm not sure; perhaps it would be a question best put to the Magister.
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>> . . . given the amount of sheer hostile political magic that's been flying about lately
>> . . . given that JMG has talked about how divination results can indeed be altered by interested outside forces (though he was not specific on the details)
>> . . . being that I don't have a clear picture of the possibilities inherent in cosmological reality . . .
One of the great benefits to having a living teacher is to help clear up one's uncertainties.