Divination Interference
Jun. 4th, 2021 12:22 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I am a bit concerned by the fact that all of the divinations that I’ve seen regarding the Covid-19 vaccine have been uniformly positive, including two that recently appeared in the
conjunctio Geomancy discussion group. Now of course it could simply mean that all these hastily produced miracle vaccines are effective and wonderful, at least as far as their effects on the people divining about them who I've happened to hear about. Then again, when I see a comment like this one from JMG's Magic Monday, I get a little bit worried.
Whether or not there are unsavory spiritual entities at work interested in mucking with divination on this subject, apparently there is a certain class of human interested in doing so. I don't know how one would end up the kind of person so invested in one view of a situation that they would go so far as to attempt to turn other people's divinations into propaganda. "It's important to make sure the universe stays on message! It can't be trusted to give good advice to people on its own!" This kind of thinking flabbergasts me. But crazy times produce crazy people.
I suspect these issues may extend beyond the vaccine issue. I have not actually done any divinations about any Covid vaccines, as I have not been in a position to take any yet. But I note that except for possibly my very first Coronavirus divination back when it first started hitting the news, my divinations have been extremely screwy on the subject of the virus in general. (In that initial reading, I asked whether it would become a "major pandemic", which in my naivety I defined specifically as one which would go on to kill "over 10,000 people”. It was an occupation by Fortuna Major in the 8th, as I recall.)
Twice so far I have seemed in particular danger to exposure to Covid, and at those times I did geomancy readings that told me in quite strong terms that I had already contracted a highly symptomatic and contagious version of it. In neither case did this turn out to be at all true. I also inquired once as to whether my daughter, who I needed to take on a short day trip to another city, would be safe from virus infection, as my wife was worried; the result was, similarly, that my daughter would be catch the virus and become ill. I eventually decided to disregard that reading for various reasons, not the least of which was that the previous two had been so off the mark; and indeed, nothing at all came of it.
After seeing the Magic Monday comment I linked above, a pin dropped. Might there be some parties interested in tipping the scales on these questions? Either, on the one hand, toward increasing panic; or on the other, desiring to encourage what they consider "safe" behavior in order to keep the disease from spreading?
So I decided to ask, “Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?” (Of course, there is no guarantee that this reading wouldn't be tampered with as well. I just thought it might fare better, since potential hostile magic is likely to be more focused on disrupting answers to queries about Covid, than on disrupting queries about queries.)
Immediately before the reading, I did a banishing ritual and said a prayer for clarity and for protection from meddling influence, and made an effort to become calm and focus a bit more than I usually do. Given the results that followed, I wonder if I shouldn’t make that routine my own “new normal” when it comes to divination.
I treated it as a 12th house question (hostile magic, dangers the Quesited isn't aware of). The Four Mothers were: Albus, Rubeus, Tristitia, Tristitia. Warning to non-geomancers: jargon ahead; the short answer to the question is definitely "yes".
Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?

The court tells the story clearly: a transmission (Conjunctio) changed (Via) resulting in a state of no options (Carcer). The Querent is Albus, I suppose indicating me being an innocent party and perhaps that I was yet unsullied by infection or the like. The Quesited, the "outside forces" in the 12th house, is Puella, which I take to represent a glamour that fools the Querent. Indeed, there is perfection in the form of a Translation by Rubeus. Rubeus, here representing danger, dishonesty and lies, not only passes from between Querent-adjacent 2nd house of profit and Quesited-adjacent 11th house of help/friends, but also 6th house of health. All of these make sense, as these lies about my true state of health have also contributed to lockdown decisions which kept me away from both friends and profit (though not from other things such as family or work).
Reflecting on the chart, it seems to me that if this is the result of hostile magic, then the person/people casting the spell would likely be represented by House 7 (house of enemies/the other party). Support for this is further given by the facts that the Way of Points (showing root cause) leads by way of the 12th to the 7th house; and that, if rotating the chart from the 7th's perspective, the Rubeus force passes through enemy's 5th (fun or creation, and it should be noted that
magister_geomantiae's tradition places magical workings here), enemy's 8th (house of spirits, and the traditional placement for magical workings that
ecosophia JMG lists in The Art and Practice of Geomancy), and enemy's 12th (which suggests to me the magical blowback the magic user has lying in store-- for one thing, to also become victim to lies).
By the way, I should clarify that it seems even possible to me that the "magical working" indicated by this reading may not have literally been an act of ritual magic-- for instance it could be simply the result of the amassed desires of the egregore of everyone who thinks that others should be more scared and cautious in their behavior during the pandemic. That said, given that Magic Monday comment and the tenor of the times, it seems likely that at least some parties involved really have been working magic, though I have no idea how many there are, their skill level, or whether there are multiple parties doing so with conflicting agendas. Best to assume the worst in all cases, I guess.
At
conjunctio we have discussed how in Geomancy, hot button issues seem particularly prone to wonky divination results. This made particular sense when it comes to various people's third party questions like whether the Three Gorges Dam is about to burst or whether JFK Jr is still alive, where our Querents had no actual connection to the Quesited. In fact, I have heard the view recently that in such cases, perfection between Querent and Quesited doesn't actually have any bearing on the answer (though other factors may be weighed and considered)-- a position that makes logical sense to me. But, from my reading today, I have learned that even in questions directly involving the Querent, when it comes to hot button issues, wonky and inaccurate results are still a major danger.
I would like to put out a request. Would anyone who has previously divined as to the effectiveness of the vaccine for themselves be willing to ask a similar question to what I asked above, and share the results here? For example: “Were my divinations regarding the vaccine tampered with by outside forces?” If you do so, I recommend that you, too, take more efforts than you usually would to cleanse, banish, pray, and/or enter a meditative state before your reading.
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Whether or not there are unsavory spiritual entities at work interested in mucking with divination on this subject, apparently there is a certain class of human interested in doing so. I don't know how one would end up the kind of person so invested in one view of a situation that they would go so far as to attempt to turn other people's divinations into propaganda. "It's important to make sure the universe stays on message! It can't be trusted to give good advice to people on its own!" This kind of thinking flabbergasts me. But crazy times produce crazy people.
I suspect these issues may extend beyond the vaccine issue. I have not actually done any divinations about any Covid vaccines, as I have not been in a position to take any yet. But I note that except for possibly my very first Coronavirus divination back when it first started hitting the news, my divinations have been extremely screwy on the subject of the virus in general. (In that initial reading, I asked whether it would become a "major pandemic", which in my naivety I defined specifically as one which would go on to kill "over 10,000 people”. It was an occupation by Fortuna Major in the 8th, as I recall.)
Twice so far I have seemed in particular danger to exposure to Covid, and at those times I did geomancy readings that told me in quite strong terms that I had already contracted a highly symptomatic and contagious version of it. In neither case did this turn out to be at all true. I also inquired once as to whether my daughter, who I needed to take on a short day trip to another city, would be safe from virus infection, as my wife was worried; the result was, similarly, that my daughter would be catch the virus and become ill. I eventually decided to disregard that reading for various reasons, not the least of which was that the previous two had been so off the mark; and indeed, nothing at all came of it.
After seeing the Magic Monday comment I linked above, a pin dropped. Might there be some parties interested in tipping the scales on these questions? Either, on the one hand, toward increasing panic; or on the other, desiring to encourage what they consider "safe" behavior in order to keep the disease from spreading?
So I decided to ask, “Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?” (Of course, there is no guarantee that this reading wouldn't be tampered with as well. I just thought it might fare better, since potential hostile magic is likely to be more focused on disrupting answers to queries about Covid, than on disrupting queries about queries.)
Immediately before the reading, I did a banishing ritual and said a prayer for clarity and for protection from meddling influence, and made an effort to become calm and focus a bit more than I usually do. Given the results that followed, I wonder if I shouldn’t make that routine my own “new normal” when it comes to divination.
I treated it as a 12th house question (hostile magic, dangers the Quesited isn't aware of). The Four Mothers were: Albus, Rubeus, Tristitia, Tristitia. Warning to non-geomancers: jargon ahead; the short answer to the question is definitely "yes".
Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?
The court tells the story clearly: a transmission (Conjunctio) changed (Via) resulting in a state of no options (Carcer). The Querent is Albus, I suppose indicating me being an innocent party and perhaps that I was yet unsullied by infection or the like. The Quesited, the "outside forces" in the 12th house, is Puella, which I take to represent a glamour that fools the Querent. Indeed, there is perfection in the form of a Translation by Rubeus. Rubeus, here representing danger, dishonesty and lies, not only passes from between Querent-adjacent 2nd house of profit and Quesited-adjacent 11th house of help/friends, but also 6th house of health. All of these make sense, as these lies about my true state of health have also contributed to lockdown decisions which kept me away from both friends and profit (though not from other things such as family or work).
Reflecting on the chart, it seems to me that if this is the result of hostile magic, then the person/people casting the spell would likely be represented by House 7 (house of enemies/the other party). Support for this is further given by the facts that the Way of Points (showing root cause) leads by way of the 12th to the 7th house; and that, if rotating the chart from the 7th's perspective, the Rubeus force passes through enemy's 5th (fun or creation, and it should be noted that
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By the way, I should clarify that it seems even possible to me that the "magical working" indicated by this reading may not have literally been an act of ritual magic-- for instance it could be simply the result of the amassed desires of the egregore of everyone who thinks that others should be more scared and cautious in their behavior during the pandemic. That said, given that Magic Monday comment and the tenor of the times, it seems likely that at least some parties involved really have been working magic, though I have no idea how many there are, their skill level, or whether there are multiple parties doing so with conflicting agendas. Best to assume the worst in all cases, I guess.
At
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I would like to put out a request. Would anyone who has previously divined as to the effectiveness of the vaccine for themselves be willing to ask a similar question to what I asked above, and share the results here? For example: “Were my divinations regarding the vaccine tampered with by outside forces?” If you do so, I recommend that you, too, take more efforts than you usually would to cleanse, banish, pray, and/or enter a meditative state before your reading.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-03 05:05 pm (UTC)I was discussing the very topic you raise with my wife the other day since I thought it was fishy, too, and I noted to her how the folks in
no subject
Date: 2021-06-03 05:27 pm (UTC)If I may ask, what form does it seem to take in your charts?
Well, ironically, that might be a telltale that you could trust the chart, then!
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Date: 2021-06-03 05:49 pm (UTC)At any rate, I must say that not all the vaccine readings have been positive: I did have a very positive reading, but my partner had the opposite and I seem to remember Nick Farrell in the Facebook Geomancy group had a negative one, so they happen!
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Date: 2021-06-03 06:04 pm (UTC)Hmmm... I can see the argument for keeping a particular eye on the 9th house; or even making it the Quesited (though I believe the case is stronger for using the 12th). But to call my divinations the Querent? I am the one asking the questions, not my divinations! Is your line of reasoning one you could elaborate on a little bit further?
Thanks, these are very good data points to know!
Hwistle, would you be willing to do a divination checking as to whether your previous vaccination divination had been tampered with in some way?
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Date: 2021-06-03 07:13 pm (UTC)I will give it a try myself and report back...
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Date: 2021-06-03 08:01 pm (UTC)I don't have 2020's charts to hand, but I do have this year's: my catching COVID was heralded by Puer in the sixth on 27 Mar. Thereafter for the next week or so, the sixth house indicated how the disease would affect me and it sprang to a house indicating what would be affected. (I'm missing a day or two in the middle in my notes, but of the days I have three of them are Amissio (weakness, emptiness), Fortuna Minor (burnout), and Rubeus (confusion, brain fog) in the sixth and as the judge, showing that they'd have a generalized affect on the day; one other is Rubeus in the sixth and eleventh (and my notes this day are barely legible, so I must have been pretty messed up). When the disease let up again, that was heralded by Caput in the fifth and sixth on the first day, and Conjunctio linking all over the chart on the following two days (as I put everything back together), and finally Puella when it was no longer noticeable.
(This is a much cleaner and more consistent arc than I remember! I think I need to start tracking houses of interest over time.)
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Date: 2021-06-04 06:23 am (UTC)I have wondered, speaking more generally, if a lot of the craziness we see around us and in our political classes could be due to magical attacks.
I studied Remote Viewing (independently, not in an agency) for quite a while, and learned that there is another discipline, 'Remote Influencing,' in which the practitioner targets someone's mind to influence their opinions and go in directions that the practitioner wants. Typically, the targets would be business or political leaders.
It may be useful as a thought experiment to ask, "Who benefits from promotion of COVID fears? Who benefits from promoting COVID vaccinations?" and also, "Who benefits from minimizing COVID dangers?"
My only thoughts along those lines--that possibly there are powerful people who would use a health emergency (or really any sort of emergency) as a way to increase and consolidate their power. I don't have any insight into who, how, or why at this point.
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Date: 2021-06-04 07:05 am (UTC)"Have any of my COVID queries been tampered with by outside forces?"
--A good question. Here's what I got; Selected House Chart, I for Querent and XII for Quesited. Reading on 3 June 2021 at 23:25 PDST
Mothers: Rubeus, Amissio, Conjunctio, Cauda Draconis.
Well THERE's trouble right off the bat with Rubeus as the first Mother, so extreme caution with this reading would be a good idea. I decided to look at it anyway.
Here's the Chart:
Notice that this court has the same members as that of Tunesmyth, but in different order. Meeting with delay yields transformation?
Rubeus in I and Caput Draconis in XII have Fire and Air lines in agreement, so Company Capitular. Note Company Compound with Cauda Drac in Xi and Caput Drac in XII. Caput Drac travels to VII from XII, so possibly enemies (VII) government (XII) are beginning to do this.
On the one hand, it seems to be a mildly positive answer. On the other hand, can we trust a reading with Rubeus in house I?
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Date: 2021-06-04 09:24 am (UTC)However, if we look for perfection between House IX (your divinations) and House XII, the chart perfects by Conjunction (Cauda in XI) and Trine (Cauda in IV) so looking in this way it's a strong 'Yes'...
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Date: 2021-06-04 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 02:35 pm (UTC)One issue that gets highlighted by reading the chart your way is that we may have a different idea of how Translations work. My understanding was that you are only allowed to Translate via the houses directly adjacent your Querent/Sub-Querent's house and your Quesited's house. In other words, I assumed that it's not permissible to first pass a Querent/Quesited to a new location and then look at adjacent houses. My take here is based on the wording of JMG's "Art and Practice", but it's not something that is explored in one way or the other in any detail. Do you know another source that addresses this issue?
Thank you, I look forward to it!
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Date: 2021-06-04 02:37 pm (UTC)Well, this is clearly the case-- there are many egregious displays going on right now-- but I don't see signs that make me believe that any such players are unified. Rather, I think it's a motley crew with often competing agendas.
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Date: 2021-06-04 04:08 pm (UTC)It gets to be a lot! I am often shuffling techniques and experiments due to lack of time, and there's a lot of things I just haven't touched yet.
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Date: 2021-06-04 04:36 pm (UTC)Yes, interesting how once again the court is so similar. I'd offer another initial read of this court as "communication is confined to let through only one sort". The answer to the question, if the Judge answered it in one word, would be "change". I tend to see it as a piece of evidence toward a yes answer.
*If* this is correctly read with Querent in 1st and Quesited in 12th, then yes, given the mix of aspects positive and negative, I agree that it's more a no than a yes-- though I think that the square and opposition aspects suggest that there are certain factors in play that threaten to destabilize the readings.
And *if* it's actually answered by looking at perfection between 9th and 12th, then I also agree that this was a strong "Yes".
Let's talk about that Rubeus in the first. I wouldn't throw out the reading by any means, but saving particular signs of lies or danger, I would take this as a warning that you are mistaken about something in how you asked the question. I am not inside your head, so please offer some guidance for what sounds plausible here, but a couple of possibilities that come to mind about what Rubeus could portend:
1. You didn't ask the question you thought you were asking, in that your phrasing had a different nuance than you intended. For instance, given the phrase "Have any of my COVID *queries* been tampered with by outside forces?", the answer might be "no", no outside force messed with the questions you asked, but they did mess the answer!
2. You didn't ask the question you thought you were asking, in that I requested you for a reading about whether your vaccine divination had been tampered with, and you asked about Covid divinations instead, which is arguably a different thing.
3. Perhaps it's a warning meaning something along the lines of, "Well, literally speaking no outside forces messed with your divinations, but inner forces did, skewing your readings".
Do any of these feel like possibilities to you, based on your own internal knowledge of your own situation and viewpoint? If so, any one of them could account for the way that (if perfection between 1st and 12th is the right way to read the chart) there are aspects that both support and oppose an affirmative answer to the question.
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Date: 2021-06-04 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 08:00 pm (UTC)(Myself, I would use the I and XII... I have a hard time thinking of a non-agent like a divination as a "third party," but I should note that I have not really experimented with turned houses and so I could very much be mistaken.)
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Date: 2021-06-04 08:02 pm (UTC)--
MANUEL:
Quick question Magister, if I may: If the query is: Have any of my divinations been tampered with by outside forces?, Would we look for perfection between the Querent (House I) and House XII (hidden enemies) or between House IX (divinations) and House XII? (For context of the query, see tunesmyth page: https://tunesmyth.dreamwidth.org/) Many thanks!
MAGISTER:
Manuel, good morning,
I am having difficulty understanding the question. What kind of outside forces? And how would those forces be tampering with divination? The main force of our art comes from the planets, which are essentially the nerve centers of the Mother of All Living. The power of the planetary nerve centers are mirrored in the geomancer's own interior planetary centers, and our own interior planetary centers govern the course of our thoughts and the movements of our bodies, including our hands. So, if there were theoretically going to be interference, it could *NOT* be between the external planets and our internal planets. To postulate that would be to suggest that the Mirror of Nature (or the Chain of Fate) could be broken (the link between as above, so below; as below so above), and that is not possible (FN1). So, it must be that people are thinking that the interference is between the interior planets and the individual diviner's hands? And the idea is that there is an outside force that is interfering with individuals in a gross/collective sense, not by focusing on individual diviners? An outside force is casting a spell (or something) and saying, "let all divinations on COVID speak falsely"?
MAN:
Firstly, I must say this not my query, but tunesmith's. My understanding is that what he means by outside forces is maybe demonic entities or people using magical means to interfere/affect the divination, so the result they want appears in place of the true result of the divination. He might suspect something like that could be happening regarding divinations about the nature of the covid vaccine, because all the ones he has seen have been positive, and he might wonder whether someone is trying to magically override any negative queries in order to convince people to get vaccinated. At any rate, there're two questions raised by this:
1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?
2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or House IX (Divinations)?
MAG:
>> 1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?
Yes, it is possible to break the link between the the diviner's inner planets and his mind and hands. I'm pretty sure I could do it, myself. But, I would have to levy my work at a specific individual at the time he was doing the divination. If I wanted to break the link for a longer period of time, I would have to use some kind of curse on the person. Demonic entities would not have the power to collectively ruin the divinations on a certain topic, and evil magicians don't have that kind of power, either. Hence my questions attempting to clarify this. My impression is that, wherever this whole topic originated, the person does not understand how cosmological reality works.
If a specific individual thinks his divinatory power has been tampered with, then (a) someone must be monitoring him closely for the times that he attempts divination in order to destroy the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands at that specific time; or (b) someone has cursed him and destroyed the divinatory link for a longer period. If it is (b), the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands will be severed for all questions, not just questions on a specific topic.
> 2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or
> House IX (Divinations)
I would assign HOUSE 12 to the secret enemy, HOUSE 4 to the secret enemy's magical works, and HOUSE 9 to my own divinatory powers and divination. I might look at HOUSE 1 for secondary testimony, too. HOUSE 12 to 9 and HOUSE 4 to 9 and HOUSE 12 to 1 would seem to be a reasonable investigation and give a clear picture.
Let me add, too, that the interference is possible only if the divinatory method requires some connection between the inner planets and the diviner's body motion. That would include geomancy, tarot, runes, etc. It would *NOT* include horary astrology. The planets' influence on Earth NEVER stops. The Great Mirror of Nature will NEVER be broken until the Earth is destroyed. I might be able to curse someone's reasoning powers and judgment (to the extent they are actually present; they often are not present), and make a horary chart difficult for him to read, but another astrologer would read it easily.
[FN1] Breaking the Mirror of Nature or the Chain of Fate is, in fact, possible. But this is a very high alchemical work. A dark brotherhood of humans, for instance, could not do it. A single Master may effectuate it for good reason, though. An instance of this is Annie Besant. Her nativity was published at a time when astrologers still routinely calculated the date of death. And many knew when Annie Besant was fated to die. But the day came and went, and so did the month, and the year. There was so much buzz about it that Annie had to make a public statement that her Master had elongated her life so that she could finish a certain task. When that task was done, she would go.
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Date: 2021-06-04 08:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 11:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-04 11:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-06 01:53 pm (UTC)I'm the querent, Amissio in House I; the hidden enemies are Puella in House XII; my divinations is Albus in House IX and my enemies' spell is Puer in House IV (Reversed House V).
- Me and my hidden enemies:
There's no perfection between these figures and, of the two, Amissio is in better shape, surrounded by Benefaction (braced by figures of Venus and Jupiter), while Puella is in company with a malefic (Cauda) and weakened by being under the beams of the Sun (opposite Fortuna Major).
Amissio is in capitular company with Laetitia in II, and Laetitia jumps to House VII (aversion) and House X, sextile with Puella, giving a minor perfection by third agent, with reception of Fortuna Major: however, Puella in XII and Laetitia in II are opposed by Fortuna Major in VI and VII so are both under the beams of the Sun and weakened thus, so this testimony is not probably strong enough.
Puella in also in company capitular with Cauda in XI which perfects with House I by translation (Laetitia in X and II): Any possible perfection between I and IX can probably only be made by a third parties associated with the querent.
- My hidden enemies and my divinations:
No perfection. Reception of Albus and Puella is Conjunctio, giving a strong Mercurial character. Albus also not in company, so no perfection at all, no direct connection between any hidden forces and my divinations
- My hidden enemies’ magic and my divinations:
Puer moves to V and perfects with Albus in IX by Trine, with reception of Via.
This seems to indicate the enemies’ magical work impacting on my divinations: the reception is the same as the Judge, perhaps underlining this is the answer to the question?
If that’s the case, the court could be seen as saying something like ‘Yes, somebody tampered with your vaccine divinations and changed them from negative (Amissio) to Positive (Acquisitio)’ The problem is that my vaccine divinations were a mixed bag, with only one truly positive answer: if my divinations were tampered, the result would still be same (positives changed to negatives and negatives to positive). Also Via as Judge many times indicate that things are too much in the air to get a clear answer…
Given the nature of the query, the different options to look at and what has been discussed about the possibilities of divination interference, I'm not sure what to take of this divination, but judging from the above, it looks that any hidden enemies trying to interfere with covid divinations (assuming this is possible) are in a weak position, while my position is stronger. Their magic might have slightly tampered with my divinations, but not to a great effect (Albus is in a strong position)
no subject
Date: 2021-06-06 06:18 pm (UTC)Onward to attempting to apply the Magister's guidelines for interpreting my chart.
12-1: Relationship between Me and Secret Enemy. There is certainly a connection here, being that I've got a translation by Rubeus sandwiching us in at 11 and 2.
Also of note, something I didn't mention previously, is that adding the translating figure to the Querent and Quesited (something which is common practice for Translations, according to Art and Practice) yields Albus+Rubeus=Conjunctio for the Querent, and Puella+Rubeus=Via for the Quesited. Which happens to give us our court figures: RW Conjunctio and LW Via! So the court may be showing: Querent + Quesited = Carcer. Somebody is getting trapped here.
Also we should notice, since we're applying Magister's guidelines here, that the Rubeus translating to and also in Company Compound with my 1st House Albus is weakened by being "In the Beams of the Sun". So perhaps the one being trapped here is the cursing mage, rather than I.
4-9: Relationship between Secret Enemy's Working and My Divinations. Here again there is a Translation, this time Populus between 5-10. Populus in 5 is flavored by it company capitular with Rubeus, perhaps reflecting the crazy zeitgeist; 10's is in company with Conjunctio, the symbol of communication. Perhaps my divinations are being affected by the popular currents in some way, or are falling into common grooves set by thousands of people doing similar divinations about Covid.
12-9: Relationship between the Secret Enemy and My Divinations. Here there is no particular relationship to be found.
So there are connections, in my chart at least, showing a passion-driven figure of some kind connecting a Secret Enemy and myself, though weakened when it reaches me; and between a Secret Enemy's Magic and My Divinations, by way of some kind of mass movement.
How to divine past that, using the Magister's methods, I'm not sure; perhaps it would be a question best put to the Magister.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-06 06:34 pm (UTC)--Puella is the figure of the Secret Enemy
--Fortuna Major is in the 8th house of limitations, putting the figure in company with the Querent "Under the Beams of the Sun"
--There is perfection between 12-1 and 4-9, but not 12-9.
--A strong resonance between the central figures and the Court. In your case, RW/Querent=Amissio, LW/[11+12 company capitular reception]=Acquisitio, Judge/[reception of enemy magic and your divination]=Via
no subject
Date: 2021-06-07 05:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-07 05:12 am (UTC)Given my skills with divination, I haven't tried anything more complex than "what's up today"; so I can't comment on anything there.
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Date: 2021-06-07 11:50 pm (UTC)Could you be more specific with what you mean by this?
What kind of divination?
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Date: 2021-06-08 12:55 am (UTC)b) Geomancy, in the form taught in the Celtic Golden Dawn.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-08 05:11 pm (UTC)If I may, this sort of interference in my experience happens a lot more than just with covid. It can literally happen whenever folks attempt magic that overwhelms and negates reason. Multiple times I've had geomancy give me very suspect readings involving dark mages, some which immediately changed once I became free of the glamour of the mage. It didn't matter if I did banishing rituals in the space, prayed before hand, or had a meditation practice. There are ways that divination becomes wholly unreliable in the face of certain types of evil magic.
When certain types of magic get thrown about, I now believe that divination simply becomes unreliable. This is also true of gut-feelings. There are certain types of magic that work to override these intuitive and instinctive apprehensions. These magics have, in my experience, also glamoured divinations that I've done as well.
For this reason I am far more skeptical of divination than I once was. Divination can fail right when it's needed the most to discern an ambiguous situation. Furthermore, divination is no replacement for common sense, which is all that I've had recourse to when readings have gotten really wigged out.
The larger point is that divination cannot serve as a replacement for our own thinking and choice making. Divination cannot override uncertainty. This is especially true when there's magic designed to distort perceptions and incline people towards certain courses of action, and this extends in my experience far beyond covid.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 05:32 am (UTC)I find that I ask the wrong question or ask the question wrongly a lot.
Thanks for your analyses, folks!
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 07:00 am (UTC)This is a slightly different question--And the question asked is critically important, since the answers we get are often literal answers to the question asked, but not always what we really want to know, or need to know about.
Before the casting, I specified;
House Chart
Querent I
Quesited XII - Secret Enemy
My own powers of divination IX
Secret Enemy's magic workings
The 4 Mothers were Caput Draconis, Caput Draconis, Tristitia, Acquisitio
Here's the chart:
I and XII - Me and my Hidden Enemie(s);
Add Caput Drac and Fortuna Major together, and you get Rubeus. No real surprise there!
There is Company Capitular, but nothing that strongly confirms interference from a hidden enemy.
Fortuna Major could be telling me that I _have_ a hidden enemy. Hmmm.
Caput Drac travels to II, where it is sextile to XII, Favorable aspect, but a weak one. Could mean that my hidden enemy is generally against me and the things that I am doing, but maybe not specifically against my COVID divinations.
XII and IX - My Hidden Enemie(s) vs. My Divinations on COVID
Company Capitular again.
My magic is flowing/ going with the flow of Populus. Populus travels to V, and I notice that Puer neighbors V and neighbors XII. A hidden enemy takes a sword to my messages perhaps?
IX and IV - My Hidden Enemie(s) Workings vs. My Divinations on COVID
Company Capitular again.
Populus travels to V, so we have conjunction. Grasping of Acquisitio vs. Flow of Populus. Maybe temporary interference, but the river wins in the long run.
The court is kind of a downer, with Rubeus as Witness 1, Amissio as Judge, and Cauda Draconis as Witness 2, Drama/intrigue that, at the ending, leads to loss/ letting go. This seems consistent with Violet's opinion that the maelstrom of controversy interferes generally with the usefulness of divinations on COVID questions.
My own take-home on this one-- Apparently, I have a hidden enemy. Perhaps I will look into that next....
PS--Housekeeping note:
I have had real trouble putting a chart into a reply--
What seems to work for me is inserting the generated chart image into this bit of obscure code-- add a < to the left end and a > to the right end, and you will have it. The image link goes between the quotation marks in the middle;
img src="https://amissio.net/gen/house/ee/8a.svg" alt="" /
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 01:35 pm (UTC)- What are Outside Forces? The term is neutral and doesn't imply enemies (hidden or not)... If we're looking at the XII perhaps we should re-define the query changing outside forces with 'hostile forces' (At the end of the day, outside forces could include benefic entities, electrical storms, etc as well as forces with no agency of their own)
- How do we know the same forces are not tampering with this actual readings? Because of extra banishment, etc? Where does it end? It could be divination-checking turtles all the way down...
- Potential Experiments: Cast similar divinations regarding divination in general (not Covid-related); Cast covid-related divinations after the same extra care observed with these divinations.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 03:21 pm (UTC)For whatever it's worth, the XII also governs hidden/unknown things generally and also limitations/hindrances generally. I think even if divinations were messed up incidentally (rather than by hostile intent), the XII would apply. If, for example, the figure in the XII was also in the XI, then I would assume that the oracle was indicating that hostile intent was not involved. (I frequently see this kind of thing in my readings.)
This is a good general question! For whatever it's worth, for important things, I use not only the oracle but also direct prayer, my intuition, and looking for synchronicities pertinent to the reading. Each of these methods has it's weaknesses, but I find them to be useful checks on each other.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 03:29 pm (UTC)So first we figure out that the signal suffers from interference with outside forces (yes/no/its complicated), then, as you suggest, ask additional questions like "Is the emotional response to COVID interfering with the results of my divinations?"
If I am reading it right, my second divination on COVID divinations (turtles... more turtles!) is that the interference I get is a side effect of other opposition from a hidden enemy, and not directly due to a malefic conspiracy against understanding the truth about COVID
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 04:22 pm (UTC)b) Nice! Well, as you know, the way the CGD does Geomancy is a little different from how most people do. There are a few people who use Shield Charts more than astrologically-based House Charts inside
By the way, make sure to check out SDI's geomantic chart generator, which includes a setting for outputting CGD-style shield charts-- color coding and all!
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 04:29 pm (UTC)>> . . . given the amount of sheer hostile political magic that's been flying about lately
>> . . . given that JMG has talked about how divination results can indeed be altered by interested outside forces (though he was not specific on the details)
>> . . . being that I don't have a clear picture of the possibilities inherent in cosmological reality . . .
One of the great benefits to having a living teacher is to help clear up one's uncertainties.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 05:07 pm (UTC)Well, only in the sense that you were asking this 12th house question about any outside forces out to create disinformation in your divinations. I wouldn't assume it to be a personal relationship unless there were indications to that effect in the chart, which I don't personally see; the impersonal forces we've already discussed upthread would already qualify plenty. In fact, I would assume Fortuna Major in the "secret enemy" position, unless it opposes or squares some figure important to you (which it does not), to take the teeth out of House 12's bite. In fact, the figure directly opposing you is, quite pointedly, Major's dying counterpart Minor, a much weaker opponent!
You're seeing a Translation via Populus in Puer that I don't believe should count. Once a figure passes somewhere else, in my understanding you can't also look for translating figures in the new location. I believe that XII does not meet your IX.
Remember, the court is only commenting on the question at hand in most cases. My own read on it is not so bad: you're coming from a place of not thinking clearly; you encounter something that ends that mode of thinking; you lose the knowledge you thought you had from some previous charts. But Reconciler Puer suggests taking the message and moving forward with some kind of directed action.
Incidentally, this chart happens to give exactly the same Yeses and Noes that Hwistle and I both got: all three charts have perfection between 12-1 and 4-9, but not 12-9! Isn't that interesting. I believe this is starting to shape up to be what might be considered evidence that these readings are seeing the same things from different angles.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 05:15 pm (UTC)For my own phrasing, I did say "outside forces" but I also used the verb "tampered", which I believe implies directed action toward an inaccurate reading. I was, and am, satisfied by a vague term like "outside forces" because (1) I didn't want to attract the direct attention of any entities who might be doing such mucking up, and (2) it didn't matter to me so much who was tampering with my results as the fact that my previous Covid divinations were indeed false because some outside force affected them.
- How do we know the same forces are not tampering with this actual readings?
As I said in the original post, we don't. I just assumed this particular question would be a less likely candidate for tampering. For what it's worth, though, I certainly wouldn't expect forces devious enough to tamper with these sorts of meta-questions to give us the answer "yes, your readings were messed with", which it appears all three of us have received (in varying levels of strength).
- Potential Experiments
If you devise any, let me know!
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 07:04 pm (UTC)Thank you so much for this, and your most recent posts on your blog continuing these thoughts! I haven't had these kinds of experiences yet and I appreciate knowing about it as a general class of experience.
Your last sentence is crucial, and I really am happy to see that you continue these thoughts in more depth over at your place.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-09 11:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-10 02:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-06-10 05:23 am (UTC)This would make sense if the source was those who were those working to change divination results for what they believed were compassionate reasons. It wouldn’t be malice at root, but confusion.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-10 06:32 am (UTC)--Very interesting!
I'll have to look into multiple significators more-- plainly I don't have the hang of it yet, but the court saying 'no' does seem to answer the question. Forgot about Puer-- Will look into taking action.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-10 09:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-07-26 11:36 pm (UTC)https://shedivesin.github.io/emoji/cgd/shield/e3/8a.svg