tunesmyth: (Default)
[personal profile] tunesmyth
I am a bit concerned by the fact that all of the divinations that I’ve seen regarding the Covid-19 vaccine have been uniformly positive, including two that recently appeared in the [community profile] conjunctio Geomancy discussion group. Now of course it could simply mean that all these hastily produced miracle vaccines are effective and wonderful, at least as far as their effects on the people divining about them who I've happened to hear about. Then again, when I see a comment like this one from JMG's Magic Monday, I get a little bit worried.

Whether or not there are unsavory spiritual entities at work interested in mucking with divination on this subject, apparently there is a certain class of human interested in doing so. I don't know how one would end up the kind of person so invested in one view of a situation that they would go so far as to attempt to turn other people's divinations into propaganda. "It's important to make sure the universe stays on message! It can't be trusted to give good advice to people on its own!" This kind of thinking flabbergasts me. But crazy times produce crazy people.

I suspect these issues may extend beyond the vaccine issue. I have not actually done any divinations about any Covid vaccines, as I have not been in a position to take any yet. But I note that except for possibly my very first Coronavirus divination back when it first started hitting the news, my divinations have been extremely screwy on the subject of the virus in general. (In that initial reading, I asked whether it would become a "major pandemic", which in my naivety I defined specifically as one which would go on to kill "over 10,000 people”. It was an occupation by Fortuna Major in the 8th, as I recall.) 

Twice so far I have seemed in particular danger to exposure to Covid, and at those times I did geomancy readings that told me in quite strong terms that I had already contracted a highly symptomatic and contagious version of it. In neither case did this turn out to be at all true. I also inquired once as to whether my daughter, who I needed to take on a short day trip to another city, would be safe from virus infection, as my wife was worried; the result was, similarly, that my daughter would be catch the virus and become ill. I eventually decided to disregard that reading for various reasons, not the least of which was that the previous two had been so off the mark; and indeed, nothing at all came of it.

After seeing the Magic Monday comment I linked above, a pin dropped. Might there be some parties interested in tipping the scales on these questions? Either, on the one hand, toward increasing panic; or on the other, desiring to encourage what they consider "safe" behavior in order to keep the disease from spreading? 

So I decided to ask, “Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?” (Of course, there is no guarantee that this reading wouldn't be tampered with as well. I just thought it might fare better, since potential hostile magic is likely to be more focused on disrupting answers to queries about Covid, than on disrupting queries about queries.)

Immediately before the reading, I did a banishing ritual and said a prayer for clarity and for protection from meddling influence, and made an effort to become calm and focus a bit more than I usually do. Given the results that followed, I wonder if I shouldn’t make that routine my own “new normal” when it comes to divination.

I treated it as a 12th house question (hostile magic, dangers the Quesited isn't aware of). The Four Mothers were: Albus, Rubeus, Tristitia, Tristitia. Warning to non-geomancers: jargon ahead; the short answer to the question is definitely "yes".

Have any of my readings on Coronavirus/Covid-19 been tampered with by outside forces?



The court tells the story clearly: a transmission (Conjunctio) changed (Via) resulting in a state of no options (Carcer). The Querent is Albus, I suppose indicating me being an innocent party and perhaps that I was yet unsullied by infection or the like. The Quesited, the "outside forces" in the 12th house, is Puella, which I take to represent a glamour that fools the Querent. Indeed, there is perfection in the form of a Translation by Rubeus. Rubeus, here representing danger, dishonesty and lies, not only passes from between Querent-adjacent 2nd house of profit and Quesited-adjacent 11th house of help/friends, but also 6th house of health. All of these make sense, as these lies about my true state of health have also contributed to lockdown decisions which kept me away from both friends and profit (though not from other things such as family or work). 

Reflecting on the chart, it seems to me that if this is the result of hostile magic, then the person/people casting the spell would likely be represented by House 7 (house of enemies/the other party). Support for this is further given by the facts that the Way of Points (showing root cause) leads by way of the 12th to the 7th house; and that, if rotating the chart from the 7th's perspective, the Rubeus force passes through enemy's 5th (fun or creation, and it should be noted that [personal profile] magister_geomantiae's tradition places magical workings here), enemy's 8th (house of spirits, and the traditional placement for magical workings that [personal profile] ecosophia JMG lists in The Art and Practice of Geomancy), and enemy's 12th (which suggests to me the magical blowback the magic user has lying in store-- for one thing, to also become victim to lies).

By the way, I should clarify that it seems even possible to me that the "magical working" indicated by this reading may not have literally been an act of ritual magic-- for instance it could be simply the result of the amassed desires of the egregore of everyone who thinks that others should be more scared and cautious in their behavior during the pandemic. That said, given that Magic Monday comment and the tenor of the times, it seems likely that at least some parties involved really have been working magic, though I have no idea how many there are, their skill level, or whether there are multiple parties doing so with conflicting agendas. Best to assume the worst in all cases, I guess.

At [community profile] conjunctio we have discussed how in Geomancy, hot button issues seem particularly prone to wonky divination results. This made particular sense when it comes to various people's third party questions like whether the Three Gorges Dam is about to burst or whether JFK Jr is still alive, where our Querents had no actual connection to the Quesited. In fact, I have heard the view recently that in such cases, perfection between Querent and Quesited doesn't actually have any bearing on the answer (though other factors may be weighed and considered)-- a position that makes logical sense to me. But, from my reading today, I have learned that even in questions directly involving the Querent, when it comes to hot button issues, wonky and inaccurate results are still a major danger.

I would like to put out a request. Would anyone who has previously divined as to the effectiveness of the vaccine for themselves be willing to ask a similar question to what I asked above, and share the results here? For example: “Were my divinations regarding the vaccine tampered with by outside forces?” If you do so, I recommend that you, too, take more efforts than you usually would to cleanse, banish, pray, and/or enter a meditative state before your reading.

Date: 2021-06-03 05:05 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
I have done no divinations regarding questions surrounding COVID or it's vaccines, but for what it's worth, I've had COVID twice (March 2020 and April 2021)—it's not fun, especially during a move—and had the disease show up unremarkably in my daily and monthly readings at those times. It may also be worth noting that I was told in prayer not to worry about COVID, but I'm also young, have minimal social contact, and am hostile to vaccination and Western medicine generally.

I was discussing the very topic you raise with my wife the other day since I thought it was fishy, too, and I noted to her how the folks in [community profile] conjunctio had such positive charts—one without even a single negative figure in it. She asked me, "Would you get the vaccine if you got a chart like that?" My answer was that I wouldn't get a chart like that: at the very least, my first house would have Rubeus "seeing red" in it!

Date: 2021-06-03 05:49 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
I would have made House IX the Querent (your divinations are affected, not yourself). Initially this means a denial of perfection between Conjunctio in IX and Puella in XII but, funnily enough, Conjunctio is in company capitular with Populus in X, which jumps to V and perfects the chart... by Translation with Rubeus again! So this might point to the same result, but adding a third-party element, perhaps your readings have been tampered by outside forces through the agency of governments unconsciously reflecting those forces?

At any rate, I must say that not all the vaccine readings have been positive: I did have a very positive reading, but my partner had the opposite and I seem to remember Nick Farrell in the Facebook Geomancy group had a negative one, so they happen!

Date: 2021-06-03 07:13 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
I think my wording wasn't the best... my thinking is that any perfection must be between the hidden, hostile forces (House XII) and your divinations (House IX), not yourself (House I). You're still the querent, right enough, but your query is about the effect in your divinations. If the query was 'Am I been tampered with?' then I would say House I instead. I could be wrong of course and, at the end of the day, we're ending up with a similar result, though achieved differently.

I will give it a try myself and report back...

Date: 2021-06-03 08:01 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
If I may ask, what form does it seem to take in your charts?

I don't have 2020's charts to hand, but I do have this year's: my catching COVID was heralded by Puer in the sixth on 27 Mar. Thereafter for the next week or so, the sixth house indicated how the disease would affect me and it sprang to a house indicating what would be affected. (I'm missing a day or two in the middle in my notes, but of the days I have three of them are Amissio (weakness, emptiness), Fortuna Minor (burnout), and Rubeus (confusion, brain fog) in the sixth and as the judge, showing that they'd have a generalized affect on the day; one other is Rubeus in the sixth and eleventh (and my notes this day are barely legible, so I must have been pretty messed up). When the disease let up again, that was heralded by Caput in the fifth and sixth on the first day, and Conjunctio linking all over the chart on the following two days (as I put everything back together), and finally Puella when it was no longer noticeable.

(This is a much cleaner and more consistent arc than I remember! I think I need to start tracking houses of interest over time.)

Date: 2021-06-04 06:23 am (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg
I will give it a try Tunesmyth and report back.
I have wondered, speaking more generally, if a lot of the craziness we see around us and in our political classes could be due to magical attacks.
I studied Remote Viewing (independently, not in an agency) for quite a while, and learned that there is another discipline, 'Remote Influencing,' in which the practitioner targets someone's mind to influence their opinions and go in directions that the practitioner wants. Typically, the targets would be business or political leaders.
It may be useful as a thought experiment to ask, "Who benefits from promotion of COVID fears? Who benefits from promoting COVID vaccinations?" and also, "Who benefits from minimizing COVID dangers?"
My only thoughts along those lines--that possibly there are powerful people who would use a health emergency (or really any sort of emergency) as a way to increase and consolidate their power. I don't have any insight into who, how, or why at this point.

Date: 2021-06-04 07:05 am (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg

"Have any of my COVID queries been tampered with by outside forces?"

--A good question. Here's what I got; Selected House Chart, I for Querent and XII for Quesited. Reading on 3 June 2021 at 23:25 PDST

Mothers: Rubeus, Amissio, Conjunctio, Cauda Draconis.

Well THERE's trouble right off the bat with Rubeus as the first Mother, so extreme caution with this reading would be a good idea. I decided to look at it anyway.

Here's the Chart:

Notice that this court has the same members as that of Tunesmyth, but in different order. Meeting with delay yields transformation?

Rubeus in I and Caput Draconis in XII have Fire and Air lines in agreement, so Company Capitular. Note Company Compound with Cauda Drac in Xi and Caput Drac in XII. Caput Drac travels to VII from XII, so possibly enemies (VII) government (XII) are beginning to do this.

On the one hand, it seems to be a mildly positive answer. On the other hand, can we trust a reading with Rubeus in house I?

Date: 2021-06-04 09:24 am (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
I don't think the Querent is in company (House I cannot be in company with House XII) but you're right, company compound between XI and XII. Cauda jumps to IX, in Trine to the Querent but also to IV, in square to teh Querent. Caput itself jumps to VII, in Opposition to the Querent. So, if we were looking at House I and House XII, I would say this is more a no than a yes (no perfection apart from three aspects, two of which are negative)
However, if we look for perfection between House IX (your divinations) and House XII, the chart perfects by Conjunction (Cauda in XI) and Trine (Cauda in IV) so looking in this way it's a strong 'Yes'...

Date: 2021-06-04 04:08 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
I realize I forgot my monthly chart! For April (which I cast on the first), I had a simple Cauda in the sixth—so, a situation where input is closed off and it just needs to finish going it's way.


I still can't seem to find the time to squeeze all the juice from them I can most of the time

It gets to be a lot! I am often shuffling techniques and experiments due to lack of time, and there's a lot of things I just haven't touched yet.

Date: 2021-06-04 04:40 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
Another possibility for a first house Rubeus is if, like me, one's feelings on the issue are too strong to be able to get clarity on the situation.

Date: 2021-06-04 06:49 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
Hmmm, you might be right... I guess for translation we should only look at Populus in X, not Populus in V... Rubeus in XI is both next to Puella in XII and Populus in X, but I'm now doubting the rules of translation.. I mean, if Translation means any of the two figures bracing the house in question, then, say, a query about our brothers would always perfect, since House I and House III would always share House II as an immediate neighbour... which makes me think, would you apply translation to either neighbouring house, or just to the house immediately following the querent/quesited?

Date: 2021-06-04 06:55 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
As I understand it, translation has to be the same figure in two places. So for houses I/III to perfect by translation, you need the translating figure in II and IV, II and XII, or IV and XII. The extreme case would be neighboring houses: so for example I/II can only perfect by translation if there is a bridging figure in III and XII.

Date: 2021-06-04 07:08 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
That makes sense, so both houses cannot share the same house... In that case, tunesmyth's chart won't perfect at all if we were looking at House IX and House XII

Date: 2021-06-04 08:00 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
RIght, I don't think there's a mode of perfection between the IX and XII.

(Myself, I would use the I and XII... I have a hard time thinking of a non-agent like a divination as a "third party," but I should note that I have not really experimented with turned houses and so I could very much be mistaken.)

Date: 2021-06-04 08:02 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
Since we were talking about which houses to look at for this divination, I thought I would message magister_geomantiae to look for his opinion (Quin, I hope this is OK, since my perception is that you were making this post open, and I hope I didn't misunderstand you either!). One topic took to another, and I thought I would share what he said here, in case anybody is interested: Here it goes...

--
MANUEL:
Quick question Magister, if I may: If the query is: Have any of my divinations been tampered with by outside forces?, Would we look for perfection between the Querent (House I) and House XII (hidden enemies) or between House IX (divinations) and House XII? (For context of the query, see tunesmyth page: https://tunesmyth.dreamwidth.org/) Many thanks!

MAGISTER:
Manuel, good morning,
I am having difficulty understanding the question. What kind of outside forces? And how would those forces be tampering with divination? The main force of our art comes from the planets, which are essentially the nerve centers of the Mother of All Living. The power of the planetary nerve centers are mirrored in the geomancer's own interior planetary centers, and our own interior planetary centers govern the course of our thoughts and the movements of our bodies, including our hands. So, if there were theoretically going to be interference, it could *NOT* be between the external planets and our internal planets. To postulate that would be to suggest that the Mirror of Nature (or the Chain of Fate) could be broken (the link between as above, so below; as below so above), and that is not possible (FN1). So, it must be that people are thinking that the interference is between the interior planets and the individual diviner's hands? And the idea is that there is an outside force that is interfering with individuals in a gross/collective sense, not by focusing on individual diviners? An outside force is casting a spell (or something) and saying, "let all divinations on COVID speak falsely"?

MAN:
Firstly, I must say this not my query, but tunesmith's. My understanding is that what he means by outside forces is maybe demonic entities or people using magical means to interfere/affect the divination, so the result they want appears in place of the true result of the divination. He might suspect something like that could be happening regarding divinations about the nature of the covid vaccine, because all the ones he has seen have been positive, and he might wonder whether someone is trying to magically override any negative queries in order to convince people to get vaccinated. At any rate, there're two questions raised by this:

1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?
2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or House IX (Divinations)?

MAG:

>> 1. Is it possible to magically interfere with somebody else's divination?

Yes, it is possible to break the link between the the diviner's inner planets and his mind and hands. I'm pretty sure I could do it, myself. But, I would have to levy my work at a specific individual at the time he was doing the divination. If I wanted to break the link for a longer period of time, I would have to use some kind of curse on the person. Demonic entities would not have the power to collectively ruin the divinations on a certain topic, and evil magicians don't have that kind of power, either. Hence my questions attempting to clarify this. My impression is that, wherever this whole topic originated, the person does not understand how cosmological reality works.

If a specific individual thinks his divinatory power has been tampered with, then (a) someone must be monitoring him closely for the times that he attempts divination in order to destroy the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands at that specific time; or (b) someone has cursed him and destroyed the divinatory link for a longer period. If it is (b), the divinatory link between the inner planets and his mind and hands will be severed for all questions, not just questions on a specific topic.

> 2. If we were enquirying about this, would be use House I (Querent) or
> House IX (Divinations)

I would assign HOUSE 12 to the secret enemy, HOUSE 4 to the secret enemy's magical works, and HOUSE 9 to my own divinatory powers and divination. I might look at HOUSE 1 for secondary testimony, too. HOUSE 12 to 9 and HOUSE 4 to 9 and HOUSE 12 to 1 would seem to be a reasonable investigation and give a clear picture.

Let me add, too, that the interference is possible only if the divinatory method requires some connection between the inner planets and the diviner's body motion. That would include geomancy, tarot, runes, etc. It would *NOT* include horary astrology. The planets' influence on Earth NEVER stops. The Great Mirror of Nature will NEVER be broken until the Earth is destroyed. I might be able to curse someone's reasoning powers and judgment (to the extent they are actually present; they often are not present), and make a horary chart difficult for him to read, but another astrologer would read it easily.

[FN1] Breaking the Mirror of Nature or the Chain of Fate is, in fact, possible. But this is a very high alchemical work. A dark brotherhood of humans, for instance, could not do it. A single Master may effectuate it for good reason, though. An instance of this is Annie Besant. Her nativity was published at a time when astrologers still routinely calculated the date of death. And many knew when Annie Besant was fated to die. But the day came and went, and so did the month, and the year. There was so much buzz about it that Annie had to make a public statement that her Master had elongated her life so that she could finish a certain task. When that task was done, she would go.

Date: 2021-06-04 08:07 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
Fascinating, thank you both.

Date: 2021-06-04 11:57 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
Of course, I wouldn't have posted it otherwise, but good of you to check!

Date: 2021-06-06 01:53 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
Ok, so here's my chart to the question 'Have my divinations on covid-19 vaccines been tampered with by outside forces?' (I've slightly modified the query to reflect the fact that my previous charts were all about the vaccines)



I'm the querent, Amissio in House I; the hidden enemies are Puella in House XII; my divinations is Albus in House IX and my enemies' spell is Puer in House IV (Reversed House V).

- Me and my hidden enemies:

There's no perfection between these figures and, of the two, Amissio is in better shape, surrounded by Benefaction (braced by figures of Venus and Jupiter), while Puella is in company with a malefic (Cauda) and weakened by being under the beams of the Sun (opposite Fortuna Major).
Amissio is in capitular company with Laetitia in II, and Laetitia jumps to House VII (aversion) and House X, sextile with Puella, giving a minor perfection by third agent, with reception of Fortuna Major: however, Puella in XII and Laetitia in II are opposed by Fortuna Major in VI and VII so are both under the beams of the Sun and weakened thus, so this testimony is not probably strong enough.
Puella in also in company capitular with Cauda in XI which perfects with House I by translation (Laetitia in X and II): Any possible perfection between I and IX can probably only be made by a third parties associated with the querent.

- My hidden enemies and my divinations:

No perfection. Reception of Albus and Puella is Conjunctio, giving a strong Mercurial character. Albus also not in company, so no perfection at all, no direct connection between any hidden forces and my divinations

- My hidden enemies’ magic and my divinations:

Puer moves to V and perfects with Albus in IX by Trine, with reception of Via.
This seems to indicate the enemies’ magical work impacting on my divinations: the reception is the same as the Judge, perhaps underlining this is the answer to the question?

If that’s the case, the court could be seen as saying something like ‘Yes, somebody tampered with your vaccine divinations and changed them from negative (Amissio) to Positive (Acquisitio)’ The problem is that my vaccine divinations were a mixed bag, with only one truly positive answer: if my divinations were tampered, the result would still be same (positives changed to negatives and negatives to positive). Also Via as Judge many times indicate that things are too much in the air to get a clear answer…

Given the nature of the query, the different options to look at and what has been discussed about the possibilities of divination interference, I'm not sure what to take of this divination, but judging from the above, it looks that any hidden enemies trying to interfere with covid divinations (assuming this is possible) are in a weak position, while my position is stronger. Their magic might have slightly tampered with my divinations, but not to a great effect (Albus is in a strong position)

Date: 2021-06-07 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mollari
Thank you for this! It's always interesting when something gets confirmation, and seeing this tells me that something is mucking with divination on Covid. My sense, for what it's worth, is that the person I talked to had tapped into something. I also suspect it's fairly widespread, but I have no evidence for it.

Given my skills with divination, I haven't tried anything more complex than "what's up today"; so I can't comment on anything there.
Edited (Added a word for clarity) Date: 2021-06-07 05:12 am (UTC)

Date: 2021-06-08 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mollari
a) Just that I think there's something moving there, a demonic entity, or an egregore, or something that she was connected to. I'm still learning how to sense these things, and so I'm not sure what's happening there.

b) Geomancy, in the form taught in the Celtic Golden Dawn.

Date: 2021-06-08 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] violetcabra
Hi Tunsesmyth!

If I may, this sort of interference in my experience happens a lot more than just with covid. It can literally happen whenever folks attempt magic that overwhelms and negates reason. Multiple times I've had geomancy give me very suspect readings involving dark mages, some which immediately changed once I became free of the glamour of the mage. It didn't matter if I did banishing rituals in the space, prayed before hand, or had a meditation practice. There are ways that divination becomes wholly unreliable in the face of certain types of evil magic.

When certain types of magic get thrown about, I now believe that divination simply becomes unreliable. This is also true of gut-feelings. There are certain types of magic that work to override these intuitive and instinctive apprehensions. These magics have, in my experience, also glamoured divinations that I've done as well.

For this reason I am far more skeptical of divination than I once was. Divination can fail right when it's needed the most to discern an ambiguous situation. Furthermore, divination is no replacement for common sense, which is all that I've had recourse to when readings have gotten really wigged out.

The larger point is that divination cannot serve as a replacement for our own thinking and choice making. Divination cannot override uncertainty. This is especially true when there's magic designed to distort perceptions and incline people towards certain courses of action, and this extends in my experience far beyond covid.

Date: 2021-06-09 05:32 am (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg
Yes that IS a possibility-- The question we ask is critically important because the answers are very literal -- We get answers to the question we actually asked, not necessarily the answer we need to know.
I find that I ask the wrong question or ask the question wrongly a lot.
Thanks for your analyses, folks!

Date: 2021-06-09 07:00 am (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg
Have the results of my divinations on COVID been altered by outside forces?

This is a slightly different question--And the question asked is critically important, since the answers we get are often literal answers to the question asked, but not always what we really want to know, or need to know about.

Before the casting, I specified;
House Chart
Querent I
Quesited XII - Secret Enemy
My own powers of divination IX
Secret Enemy's magic workings

The 4 Mothers were Caput Draconis, Caput Draconis, Tristitia, Acquisitio

Here's the chart:



I and XII - Me and my Hidden Enemie(s);

Add Caput Drac and Fortuna Major together, and you get Rubeus. No real surprise there!
There is Company Capitular, but nothing that strongly confirms interference from a hidden enemy.

Fortuna Major could be telling me that I _have_ a hidden enemy. Hmmm.
Caput Drac travels to II, where it is sextile to XII, Favorable aspect, but a weak one. Could mean that my hidden enemy is generally against me and the things that I am doing, but maybe not specifically against my COVID divinations.

XII and IX - My Hidden Enemie(s) vs. My Divinations on COVID

Company Capitular again.
My magic is flowing/ going with the flow of Populus. Populus travels to V, and I notice that Puer neighbors V and neighbors XII. A hidden enemy takes a sword to my messages perhaps?

IX and IV - My Hidden Enemie(s) Workings vs. My Divinations on COVID

Company Capitular again.
Populus travels to V, so we have conjunction. Grasping of Acquisitio vs. Flow of Populus. Maybe temporary interference, but the river wins in the long run.

The court is kind of a downer, with Rubeus as Witness 1, Amissio as Judge, and Cauda Draconis as Witness 2, Drama/intrigue that, at the ending, leads to loss/ letting go. This seems consistent with Violet's opinion that the maelstrom of controversy interferes generally with the usefulness of divinations on COVID questions.

My own take-home on this one-- Apparently, I have a hidden enemy. Perhaps I will look into that next....

PS--Housekeeping note:
I have had real trouble putting a chart into a reply--
What seems to work for me is inserting the generated chart image into this bit of obscure code-- add a < to the left end and a > to the right end, and you will have it. The image link goes between the quotation marks in the middle;

img src="https://amissio.net/gen/house/ee/8a.svg" alt="" /

Date: 2021-06-09 01:35 pm (UTC)
hwistle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hwistle
Some further reflection on this thread:

- What are Outside Forces? The term is neutral and doesn't imply enemies (hidden or not)... If we're looking at the XII perhaps we should re-define the query changing outside forces with 'hostile forces' (At the end of the day, outside forces could include benefic entities, electrical storms, etc as well as forces with no agency of their own)

- How do we know the same forces are not tampering with this actual readings? Because of extra banishment, etc? Where does it end? It could be divination-checking turtles all the way down...

- Potential Experiments: Cast similar divinations regarding divination in general (not Covid-related); Cast covid-related divinations after the same extra care observed with these divinations.


Date: 2021-06-09 03:21 pm (UTC)
sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdi
What are Outside Forces?

For whatever it's worth, the XII also governs hidden/unknown things generally and also limitations/hindrances generally. I think even if divinations were messed up incidentally (rather than by hostile intent), the XII would apply. If, for example, the figure in the XII was also in the XI, then I would assume that the oracle was indicating that hostile intent was not involved. (I frequently see this kind of thing in my readings.)


How do we know the same forces are not tampering with this actual readings?

This is a good general question! For whatever it's worth, for important things, I use not only the oracle but also direct prayer, my intuition, and looking for synchronicities pertinent to the reading. Each of these methods has it's weaknesses, but I find them to be useful checks on each other.

Date: 2021-06-09 03:29 pm (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg
I was going for the principle of indirection with 'outside forces.' It is a bit like listening to a low-quality broadcast on shortwave radio. There are a number of possibilities for the crappy signal-- Is it interference from sunspots, radio noise from the centre of the galaxy, or are the East Europeans jamming the signal? These are all outside forces and only one is an enemy.
So first we figure out that the signal suffers from interference with outside forces (yes/no/its complicated), then, as you suggest, ask additional questions like "Is the emotional response to COVID interfering with the results of my divinations?"

If I am reading it right, my second divination on COVID divinations (turtles... more turtles!) is that the interference I get is a side effect of other opposition from a hidden enemy, and not directly due to a malefic conspiracy against understanding the truth about COVID

Date: 2021-06-09 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister_geomantiae
>> . . . luckily I have never made claims for the depth or accuracy of my knowledge!
>> . . . given the amount of sheer hostile political magic that's been flying about lately
>> . . . given that JMG has talked about how divination results can indeed be altered by interested outside forces (though he was not specific on the details)
>> . . . being that I don't have a clear picture of the possibilities inherent in cosmological reality . . .

One of the great benefits to having a living teacher is to help clear up one's uncertainties.

Date: 2021-06-09 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] violetcabra
You're most welcome, Tunesmyth and many thanks for the kind words!

Date: 2021-06-09 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mollari
b) That tool looks great! A Grand Unified Theory of Geomancy sounds like it could be really cool, but for now, I'm planning to stick with my small little bit of practice. Anyway, hopefully I'll feel comfortable enough to start participating in conjunctio soon; but for now, I still need to work on the basics.

Date: 2021-06-10 02:21 am (UTC)
lp9: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lp9
I performed two divinations tonight with the runes, after reading Magic Monday (I hadn't yet read this post or Violet's post on the subject). After a cold shower, SOP, meditation, and prayer, I asked: "Has someone or something been interfering with my divinations about the COVID vaccines?" and received a yes (Sowilo - the sun, clear vision, honesty, divine guidance, a beacon or illumination). When I asked if this interference was malicious, I received Ansuz reversed. The reversed position makes me think the answer is "no," but being Ansuz, it points at some sort of miscommunication or unreliability, lies, being tricked, or lack of clarity.

Date: 2021-06-10 06:32 am (UTC)
emmanuelg: sock puppet (Default)
From: [personal profile] emmanuelg
"Incidentally, this chart happens to give exactly the same Yeses and Noes that Hwistle and I both got: all three charts have perfection between 12-1 and 4-9, but not 12-9! Isn't that interesting"

--Very interesting!

I'll have to look into multiple significators more-- plainly I don't have the hang of it yet, but the court saying 'no' does seem to answer the question. Forgot about Puer-- Will look into taking action.

Date: 2021-07-26 11:36 pm (UTC)
jpc_w: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jpc_w
Here's my shield chart for the question "Can I divinate about COVID truthfully?". Asked on July 23rd, with this post in mind.

https://shedivesin.github.io/emoji/cgd/shield/e3/8a.svg

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